Author Topic: Basic Philosophies  (Read 20451 times)

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2008, 04:14:11 PM »
Hey, I don't mind people wandering in, finding these and dusting them off a bit.  For one thing it pops up and nudges me, and if I've built up some more material it'll get me to post it.

You also can't lock older threads if you want growth... remember that for some people it's the first time they've seen them and it's not good to discourage them joining in.

Anyway thank you, always appreciate being appreciated.  I hope to tell some of these tales once I get into the Ancients campaign.

-Av-

Ded10c

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2008, 08:39:18 AM »
See? It's not all bad! :P

ScrapPool

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2008, 03:37:50 PM »
REALLY COOL
the setup and premise of cthonian civilization is really cool.
BUT...
"Cthonia" <- ?
Cthonia≠Icarus haha you go back and forth lol...
the primary conflict between this lovely lecture and the OFFICIAL battlezone canon is that the Cthonians designed/created and produced biometal originally, not some other race. It is my belief that all events in popular bzone mods can be reasonably explained under that premise... yea even the hadeans from BZCP and the races of fleshstorm. lol and certainly all events in all bzone games... especially the dark planet and the scions solar system can be explained if one considers that the cthonian war spread far beyond the Sol system to allow for the explanation of all the examples i just listed. And thats the only leap of faith i take with this lore- and only to explain the events of battlezone II and red odyssey and all great mods.
MAYBE IM JUST TAKIN Battlezone in a Classic CONTEXT? hehe.
So really all im sayin is that the titans should not be the source of biometal, but rather, because the titans were so powerful, they shouldve the incentive for biometal's creation. Like, the Cthonians teamed up to make it to save themselves. ya know? that would make a great story arc if you consider the events of battlezone, which describe how they could not come together to destroy their own creation to save themselves... eh? eh? Just sayin!
So theres my 2 cents!

AUSIMLIE GREAT STUFF! MUST HAVE MORE. :D
3.5 year bump!

VSMIT

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2008, 04:11:57 PM »
More like 3.5 months.

VSMIT.

IQ's have really dropped around here just recently, must be something in the water.

Joe Capricorn

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2008, 10:00:48 PM »
3.5 hour bump?

Edit: Actually more like 4 hour 50 minute bump...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 10:01:34 PM by Joe Capricorn »

VSMIT

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2008, 01:32:42 AM »
By my times, it's a 5 hour 50 min bump.

This one is a 3.5 hour bump.

VSMIT.

IQ's have really dropped around here just recently, must be something in the water.

Ded10c

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2008, 02:47:09 AM »
I think we've already discussed this... I prefer Avatar's storyline, it fits every mod I've come across (with the exception of the obvious like Starfleet's mods)

TheJamsh

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2008, 05:27:44 AM »
Whats the big deal with bumps?!?

I like it too. And it fits in perfect with what i want to do. Plus AV's giving me a hand on one of the races mentioned that i wanted to appear in he mod :D

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2008, 02:32:48 PM »
You know, more than a few people have brought up the idea that the BZ1 storyline insists that the Cthonians, specifically Nexus, invented biometal.  Having poured over the INF and DES files I can assure you it never said that.

Maybe they're reading this as creating ALL biometal, not just THE biometal that we found or the ruins we discovered:


Good job commander.  The discovery of the Sedona ruins has raised the stakes in the space race. Engineering believes that the captured relic contains the complete historical record of the race that created the bio-metal.  If this is in fact true, the relic could provide strategic information that would allow us to manipulate the bio-metal into new forms.  We’ve classified all information regarding your discovery.


Either way, what Engineering believes isn't always fact... :)   we were just trying to figure out what we were dealing with and where it came from.   What BZ1 later says is that Nexus created a new "STRAIN" of biometal, one with a very aggressive aspect taken from the primitive race on the third rock from the sun:


Our mythologists  have analyzed the ruins near the former Soviet base and deciphered that they were constructed by a scientist named Nexus V.  What exactly he was doing remains a mystery.  They believe we are on the brink of discovering a new strain of bio-metal…  One that is better suited to creating weapons of war.  They’ve also discovered a  bizarre set of experiments that involved humans from Earth.

***

Conflict arose between the two governing bodies.  As each side developed more sophisticated weaponry, the other would top them.  But it was Nexus who managed to construct the ultimate weapon.  One that would end the war. The information that he gathered during his experiments began going into production in a secret weapons facility called Lerna on Jupiter's moon Io. We must get to Io and capture the fruits of Paternus's weapons program.  We have not found any war records that postdate the work at Lerna.

***

In pulling together the history, we've again come to see the Greek connection.  The Greeks called the Furies the "Avengers of the dead," and it is frightening just how literal they were being.  Nexus based the construction of the new strain of bio-metal on human's warlike nature.  Using DNA harvested from fallen Greek warriors, Nexus instilled "an aggression factor" in the new material. Initial engineering tests have confirmed that these relics are made from the new strain of bio-metal, and that they have some sentient properties.


Nowhere that I've seen does it state that Nexus invented BIOMETAL, just that he worked up a new, very aggressive and powerful version of it.

Then there's the whole lesson being taught by the game.  If you paid attention and listened to the narrator he pretty much lays out how we narrowly avoided the fate of the Cthonians, even though we virtually walked in their footsteps for the whole game.  We learned about biometal from a piece of their planet that fell to Earth, from their lost relics scattered on other worlds, and from the pieces their battles left scattered all over the Solar System.  We deciphered their technology, duplicated it, and ended up recreating the very thing that forced them to destroy themselves.

In the end we barely won, and then only by destroying another planet(oid).  We were luckier than them, not smarter or more powerful.

The WHOLE STORY screams that it's a cycle.  That means it repeats over and over, and is a basic truth of dealing with biometal.  All I do is run the cycle backward instead of forward, since we KNOW it's all happened before.  That's a given and I don't even think I'm stretching anything, just doing exactly what the game says happens.

Listen to the final words of the narrator, how he says he feels sorry for the next guys that have a piece of biometal fall to their planet to start the cycle over again...   brings a tear to my eye how awesomely dramatic, how epic, how basic that sort of idea is and how fantastic it is for a game that on the surface is hovertanks and Russkies, but underneath is human nature and society's progression to it's own extinction.

:)

-Av-

Ded10c

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2008, 02:48:40 AM »
And I think he's cracked the question of why BZ is so great... somebody tell CivBase!


Brings a tear to my eye, Av.

TheJamsh

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2008, 08:48:11 AM »
have you had a chance to read my 'information you ask' post in the Serenesis board?

id be interested to see what Uncle Avtar thought of it =D

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2008, 09:10:52 AM »
My time's been very limited lately, so I haven't seen it.  I'll go look though, but will repeat that I don't think anyone needs to be bound by my 'Storytime' ramblings.  We all love the game and it means something different to each of us, so it's all good...   I love variety and am constantly amazed at what people come up with (coughFLESHSTORMcough)...

***

Wow...  very interesting...  a little fuzzy on the timing, though, as I'm not clear if this is all taking place in our Solar System before the Cthonians arose, or if they came from elsewhere...  did I miss something there?  I mean, I doubt any warrior race would have allowed the Cthonians to advance to biometal in the first place if they could avoid it...

Still, very epic in scope and I like the idea of the Serenese Emperor being an ancient immortal being (Titan).   Very cool aspect...

Looking forward to seeing it all in action.  :)

-Av-
« Last Edit: December 31, 2008, 09:17:48 AM by Avatar »

TheJamsh

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2008, 12:18:32 PM »
well that's more of a background upon what happened... before the races appear again now (10 years AFTER FE)

The Serenese would have crushed the cthonians, but there army suffered a great deal of loss from the battle with their Emporer, and thus lacked the power to take on bio-metal (a much tougher substance than Tylium). By the time the Serenese could re-build their army, the Cthonians were wiped out (or at least, believed to be) in the destruction of Icarus, (if im not mistaken that is how they cease to be??)

The discovery of bio-metal and all the losses put the Serenese into shell-shock, who believed they were invincible before. As such, they eliminated what remained of their enemies, and returned to their own system, and stayed put. They didnt want to alert the Cthonians or any other bio-metal fuelled race that might rise against them. That is of course, until they got their hands on a certain item lost shortly before FE :P. but no telling on that yet hehe.

anyway, if AV approves, im pleased lol.

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2008, 06:32:56 PM »
Lol...  Av is pleased that you're pleased...   :evil:

If it matters at all, and to make it clearer for other mods that think what I think matters at all, in a nutshell I believe that:

The discovery of biometal is inevitable as a race's technology evolves.
If used for war it will evolve beyond its creators and destroy them.
If it evolves beyond its creators and destroys them it'll move on to confront other races.
The form it takes if it evolves is determined by the use the creating race made of them (ships for some, not so with others like the swarm, and someone very creative will do even more with them I'm sure...)
If not discovered anew by a race they'll discover it when confronted by it as either friend or foe, or discover it in ruins, relics, or scrap when they move out to explore the Universe.
Can be used for peace if a race is wise enough to realize the danger and lucky enough to avoid destruction.

I personally believe part of the point of BZ1's storyline was to show us that it's a cycle, happening over and over again throughout history, and possibly to other races than those that started out in our Solar System.  I take the term "Furies" to be the biometal creations of a race that evolve beyond their creators and destroy them, or are destroyed by them, or in some cases cause the mutual destruction of themselves and their creators.  I don't think the "Furies" of every race will look like a big blue/grey spaceship, as I'd imagine other races would have some very different "Furies" arise.  I think one it's amazing how creative people can be, and that the whole concept can serve as a framework for that creativity.  I'd love to see more mods that push the storyline, showing us all the different things that could happen when various races discover and deal with their own biometal technology.

For instance, a race might choose to become like the Scions, merging with biometal and becoming something amazing.
A peaceful race might have the technology to hold off biometal, but not defeat it, leading to a stalemate and a war that could last eons.
A warlike race might attack anything biometal, regardless of how it's used or how evolved it is, as a religious doctrine.

There's a lot of possibilities,  and I think there's enough talent around here to explore a lot of them.  :)

-Av-


Nielk1

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Re: Basic Philosophies
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2008, 11:35:13 PM »
Please DO NOT ABUSE the "Report to moderator" button.

You know who you are, and, as a moderator, so do I.

DO NOT do it a 4th time.

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IQ's have really dropped around here just recently, must be something in the water.